Curse

Yang Whirlwind · Dec 17, 2008, 01:30 PM // 13:30

I hate scammers!
That being said, real life hustlers have a saying: "it is impossible to scam a honest person".
A lot of scams rely on the other person's judgment being clouded by greed.

I'm sure there's a morale in there somewhere ...

FengShuiDove · Dec 17, 2008, 01:45 PM // 13:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyynyyrd

I've made a boatload of money doing this (we call it shill bidding here at Guru), and it's REAL hard to do nowadays... Three years later, the Guild Wars community has finally come to understand it.

Hope you're joking, because if not, then you're a dick. Manipulation is manipulation no matter how you dress it up or how much you make from it and laugh about in the end.

That having been said, this seems like one of those things, and you see people pulling similar idiocies all the time. The other day in ToA a guy in d1 was selling two minipets for 12e each, other guy in d2 buying at 16e each. The one that coincided between the two was worth nowhere near 12e. I saw the scam and decided to play a little game. Best thing: I get 16e for a crap minipet. Worst thing: I get to ruin their little scam.

I had one of the minipets, and offered to sell directly for 16e. He told me to show, but was hiding in one of those stupid wall bugs that you can't get into if you don't know the uber cool secret. The seller also wouldn't respond to any questions concerning the minis (as my girlfriend wanted the other one and it was a fair price for that one). So, instead of going on an ecto farming run, I sat in ToA and advertised in party search that they were spammers. After a long PM war during which the "buyer" scammer told me he'd give me all his ectos if I figured out his scam (which was clearly a lie... but we already know he was a douchebag), they both left and I felt happy inside.

Rule of thumb: Before paying top-dollar for anything, check Guru or other places with accurate representations of prices. It may take a little time but in the long run you'll save yourself from petty scams and save more money than otherwise.

P.S. I've got someone in my alliance that keeps telling me the price of individual Pumpkin Cookies are skyrocketing and are now around 40k, and he'll probably tell me more today. I doubt something like this would happen without being lolled or QQed about on Guru, but if it's true then I'm a rich man ^_^.

trankle · Dec 17, 2008, 01:58 PM // 13:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

So you're supporting attemptive scamming on the grounds of educational development? Like I said, it is naive to fall for this stuff, but some people are educationally sub-normal (<---that's probably no PC) and some are just kids.

Down with the greedy.

Just playing Devil's Advocate here, but don't forget to include the scammee under the "greedy" label.

Little Johnny Victim has two options when seeing the WTS/WTB messages: he can be a nice fellow and inform Mr. WTB that someone is selling the exact item he looking for, or he can decide to make profit through no real work of his own.

If he chooses the former path, no harm is done. If he chooses the latter path, should he not be prepared to play with the big boys?

Are there any real victims in this kind of scam, or just two people in touch with their greed, and one person reckless with his own?

Keira Nightgale · Dec 17, 2008, 02:14 PM // 14:14

Honestly there is no difference between manipulating offer/demand this way and between buying a mini/rare weapon from an ignorant guy at low prices. In both cases you're abusing people ignorance. But if this makes you feel better, yeah scammers are pieces of shit.

Spiritz · Dec 17, 2008, 02:16 PM // 14:16

I just had to wiki zaishen medallions as ive never yet heard of or seen one - also no1 here seems to state what they are -
From wiki : Zaishen Medallions could be found during the Guild Wars Nightfall PvP Preview Event. You could exchange them at the Zaishen Supply Masters for one of the following items:

now the items are no way worth ectos in any form - no idea about the balthazaar item tho but even if they were available the npc to trade with now doesnt exist cept at events and even then i dont think he takes them.

If ever in doubt about an item use wiki like myself and that can help cease some scams.
Also if u see ppl asking for trophy items before an event and they offering a low price ( tho u kno at event they worth more ) - like ppl asking 50g for battle commendations etc do what i do - i shout theres someone in Dx offering say 80g each and 9/10 times that person will bump prices - i hate seeing new players being undercut as they have no idea of value ( yes 100g is a gd price for battle commendations ) - making a slight profit is fair but getting it for 1/2 its worth then gaining more profit after is greed.

hoyce · Dec 17, 2008, 02:35 PM // 14:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chocobo1

It's pure stupidity. If you are going to buy an item and sell it two seconds later then yeah, you do deserve to get scammed. This is going to teach the guy who got scammed never to be that retarded again. Tbh it's win/win. I'd rather have smarter players in this game than tards running around in FoW armor and chaos gloves whining about getting scammed and cursed at.

Faith in GW population, never have and never will.

There is a difference between tough love and being an ass.

hoyce · Dec 17, 2008, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by trankle

Just playing Devil's Advocate here, but don't forget to include the scammee under the "greedy" label.

Little Johnny Victim has two options when seeing the WTS/WTB messages: he can be a nice fellow and inform Mr. WTB that someone is selling the exact item he looking for, or he can decide to make profit through no real work of his own.

If he chooses the former path, no harm is done. If he chooses the latter path, should he not be prepared to play with the big boys?

Are there any real victims in this kind of scam, or just two people in touch with their greed, and one person reckless with his own?

Good point, it makes you think should we protect the “guilty victim” or let them fall on their face, effectively screwing up all the other newbies in the process…

Beta Sprite · Dec 17, 2008, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Not meaning to drag this off-topic, but... a searchable Auction/Selling House would avoid this scam by letting the searcher find out what the items are worth on the current market. Also, there wouldn't be a guy yelling WTB, unless he wants it for less than what he found in the House, which means that the scam couldn't be carried out anyway.

Then again... an Auction House would bring in the power traders who buy up the stuff at a cheap price and put it all up for a fixed, higher price... Bah, this has been argued to death.

Time to bail!

*runs*

romeus petrus · Dec 17, 2008, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Both involve manipulating less informed (?ignorant) players to sell low, buy high. The difference between the two although present is quite irrelevant since the bottom line is the same.

zwei2stein · Dec 17, 2008, 04:10 PM // 16:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beta Sprite

Then again... an Auction House would bring in the power traders who buy up the stuff at a cheap price and put it all up for a fixed, higher price... Bah, this has been argued to death.

Listing fees usually stop this, as does basic research.

And they can get burned a lot by this because they usually can't keep up with people posting new and new items for long time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by romeus petrus

Both involve manipulating less informed (?ignorant) players to sell low, buy high. The difference between the two although present is quite irrelevant since the bottom line is the same.

Not really similar.

In "scam" case, middleman is the one that is scammed and is left with something of essentially zero value.

In "power trade" case, trader takes role of that middle man and tries to take advantage of two people - who, by the way, end up getting something they think is fair price (otherwise they would not trade). Not to mention they offer valid service of locating buyer for your stuff. Being able to return to farm after 5 minutes of spamming instead of 5 hours is worth it.

Lyynyyrd · Dec 17, 2008, 04:21 PM // 16:21

I remove large sums of money from the economy - it's a good thing!

AnClar · Dec 17, 2008, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chocobo1

And so we now must cater to the retards of the world? Why not reward people smart enough not to fall for this shit? The reward is they get to keep there own cash because they aren't stupid enough to fall for this.

If you get scammed once, you won't be scammed again. Experience is the best teacher. I don't support scamming, I find it horrible that someone can do that to another player, but I also don't support hand feeding all the nabs. I know that anyone who has ever been scammed will always be better off in the long run, and generally become a far better player. The quitters and the people who fall for it numbers of times really shouldn't interact with anyone because they obviously just can't survive on there own.

Down with the failures.

This is possibly the greatest post in this thread. This is exactly what I mean.

That's a really interesting attitude. It's nice that you think you know enough to not get scammed. But your "survival of the fittest" and "learning by experience" arguments are really tough to swallow.

Let's take a recent RL example: the Bernie Madoff Ponzi scheme, in which he scammed around $50 Billion from a wide audience. Here the scammer was so good that he got Banks, Charities, Universities, and people, rich and not so rich, smart and not so smart, naive and not so naive to buy in to his scam. I gather that you would not have been in favor of the charities that now have to close down, the people who have lost their retirement savings, the universities that will now have to charge higher tuition, or cut services, maybe being protected from this unscrupulous monster who caused all this grief? That the "education" that these victims received was worth the hurt, damage, and sadness that was caused? Down with the failures? I suspect that there were people and institutions who got destroyed by this scam who are as smart, or smarter, than you or I involved here. I'm sure that many of them, like you, thought that they were smart enough to never get scammed. OK in GW it's small beans compared to the crap like this that goes on in RL, but the principles are the same. Predators should NOT be allowed to prey at will in ANY society, RL or IG! Governments attempt, with greater or lesser success, to protect their citizens from predators. ANet has created a society, they have a responsibility to provide reasonable safeguards for their members as well.

Fril Estelin · Dec 17, 2008, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by trankle

Are there any real victims in this kind of scam, or just two people in touch with their greed, and one person reckless with his own?

You missed the trick in this scam (which is no power-trading since the pretending buyer and the seller are colluding): they're targetting the naive person that will think "it sounds like a honest price for the stuff". Sure, there may be greedy buyers, but then they make a mistake by not checking prices (but it's still a scam).

Lyynyyrd · Dec 17, 2008, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

You missed the trick in this scam (which is no power-trading since the pretending buyer and the seller are colluding): they're targetting the naive person that will think "it sounds like a honest price for the stuff". Sure, there may be greedy buyers, but then they make a mistake by not checking prices (but it's still a scam).

No, we're targeting the idiot that thinks he's going to flip our item for a quick profit.

theonetheonlybruce · Dec 17, 2008, 05:38 PM // 17:38

u cant report some one for this because u dont know its a scam and u have no way to prove its a scam

kilkelo · Dec 17, 2008, 05:58 PM // 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yang Whirlwind

I hate scammers!
That being said, real life hustlers have a saying: "it is impossible to scam a honest person".
A lot of scams rely on the other person's judgment being clouded by greed.

I'm sure there's a morale in there somewhere ...

Idk, I'm pretty sure most people who mistakenly sold the few ectoes they had for 5gold each were pretty trusting and honest if you ask me. I know you said "a lot of..." but that quote seems pretty dishonest in itself.

The First Silvari · Dec 17, 2008, 06:07 PM // 18:07

I remember in Balth temple, someone posted WTB R9 Gold Insc. Holy Vial for 100k. I had an R9 Gold Insc. Holy Vial and offered to trade him, I reduced the price to 20k yet he refused to trade. He stated he wanted a "Healing" att. Holy Vial. ?? was my response there are no Healing Att. Holy Vials. Then a few min later I see from someone else, "WTS R9 Insc. Gold Holy Vial 75K" I just had to laugh.

Same day someone spams "Want to take screenie of a Blk Dyed Voltaic Spear for Guild Website paying 10K". again i had to laugh, but got me to think.

Cheating in real life is for real money. But WTF why commit an act of bad karma for virtual crap? I mean lie and cheat for pixels? WOW!!!! you need help.

Gift3d · Dec 17, 2008, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Carebears Gone Wild.

It's not a bannable offense for convincing some rich ignorant moron to willingly give you a ridiculous amount of gold or ectos. It's merely natural selection.

shoogi · Dec 17, 2008, 06:22 PM // 18:22

if you are stupid enough to get scammed, I won't say that you deserve it, but it's certainly your fault. you can't blame the scammers or anet for not doing enough against them (they did everything they could, and /report is a joke).

majikmajikmajik · Dec 17, 2008, 06:50 PM // 18:50

my opinion is that this is not a bannable offense. you bought the item, its your fault. plus, you couldnt prove in anyway that person A and person B are even in on it together.

Always get a price check before you buy or sell, if your not sure ask guildies. if something sounds like its too good to be true, then it probably isnt true.